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	<title>Design Build Solutions, LLC &#187; design/build</title>
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	<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles</link>
	<description>Professional Residential Design</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:37:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Outside the Box: Spa cover lift</title>
		<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/outside-the-box-spa-cover-lift</link>
		<comments>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/outside-the-box-spa-cover-lift#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Schrock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design/Build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[3D video]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design/build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[remodeling]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/?p=911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A client has recently asked us to design an outdoor hot tub for their patio, but with a unique request.  They want it to automatically open and close.  We suggested the possibility of a cover that lifts over the in-ground tub, and they were curious about that concept. Hence, we reviewed the needs and created [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A client has recently asked us to design an outdoor hot tub for their patio, but with a unique request.  They want it to automatically open and close.  We suggested the possibility of a cover that lifts over the in-ground tub, and they were curious about that concept.</p>
<p>Hence, we reviewed the needs and created a 3D model of the concept of how it could work.  Then, I created this video.  There may be other concepts coming.  We&#8217;ll see how it turns out!  Watch the video and let me know what do <em><strong>you</strong></em> think of this concept?</p>
<p><iframe title="YouTube video player" width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LaJY4b_Agr8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></p>
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		<title>Can I get some light in here?</title>
		<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/more-light-please</link>
		<comments>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/more-light-please#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Schrock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design/Build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Attic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design/build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[remodel]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/?p=628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Our design/build team recently completed an attic renovation project design.  Working with Joe Dellanno (www.mydesignbuildproject.com) and Gerry Dunleavy (www.dunleavyconstruction.com), we were able to give our clients their needs. Our clients wanted to expand their attic space to include a home office, guest bedroom, a bedroom for their daughter, and a larger bathroom.  Considering that the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our design/build team recently completed an attic renovation project design.  Working with Joe Dellanno (<a href="http://www.mydesignbuildproject.com" target="_blank">www.mydesignbuildproject.com</a>) and Gerry Dunleavy (<a href="http://www.dunleavyconstruction.com" target="_blank">www.dunleavyconstruction.com</a>), we were able to give our clients their needs.</p>
<p>Our clients wanted to expand their attic space to include a home office, guest bedroom, a bedroom for their daughter, and a larger bathroom.  Considering that the finish level in the attic wasn&#8217;t up to the rest of the home, they wanted to also match the details in the rest of the house.<span id="more-628"></span></p>
<div id="attachment_629" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1318-beforeafter.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-629" title="Before &amp; After" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1318-beforeafter-300x211.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="211" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Before &amp; After floor plans</p></div>
<p>By expanding the front bedroom, side dormer, and moving the bathroom to the opposite side, we were able to present a more open floor plan that gives the spacious feeling that the homeowner&#8217;s desired.</p>
<p>Of course, by having the contractor in close communication with the design team, we were able to ensure that the price did not go above that which the homeowners wanted.  As the design expanded, we set the expectations that our design was flexible &#8211; like clay in a potter&#8217;s hand &#8211; and gave them permission to alter it as needed for both their taste and their financial investment.</p>
<p>Expanding floor area had to be limited since it would require roof changes.  With a tile roof, any alterations would start adding cost quickly.</p>
<div id="attachment_632" class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1318-guestrm-v5.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-632" title="Guestroom open wall" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1318-guestrm-v5-300x204.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="204" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Guestroom</p></div>
<p>Considering the sloping roof, the floor program told us that we needed some walls in the middle of the room on which we could rest the beds.  Considering the request for light to pass thru, a open wall was designed to allow the view from one end to the other.</p>
<p>Considering the exterior, both front and side elevations would allow for a heavier dormer on 3rd floor.  A small dormer in front, and two small dormers on the side were nice, but this project allowed for more interest and appeal to be added.  Keeping in line with the existing architecture, we expanded the front dormer, and combined the two dormers on the side.</p>
<p>Using small changes in shape and material selection makes a large difference in the feeling of care for the home.</p>
<div id="attachment_633" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1318-ext-v6.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-633" title="Attic remodel exterior" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/1318-ext-v6-300x203.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="203" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Exterior view of dormers</p></div>
<p>Now, the plans are done, signed, and submitted.  Keep watching and we&#8217;ll share more progress photos as construction begins.</p>
<div class="ngg-related-gallery"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-over-v3.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for Can I get some light in here?" ><img title="whole house remodel exterior" alt="whole house remodel exterior" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-over-v3.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for Can I get some light in here?" ><img title="whole house remodel 1st floor" alt="whole house remodel 1st floor" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1318-doll-v6.jpg" title="3D view help make decisions" class="shutterset_Related images for Can I get some light in here?" ><img title="Attic remodel" alt="Attic remodel" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1318-doll-v6.jpg" /></a>
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		<title>Saving money by design</title>
		<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/saving-money-by-design</link>
		<comments>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/saving-money-by-design#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Schrock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Business]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design/build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[remodel]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/?p=619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a poll we recently published, one respondent asked how using a design firm can help save money in the long run.  Good question, thanks for asking. It does seem to be an oxymoron to say that one can save money by spending it.  Old adages about saving &#38; earning pennies, getting what you pay [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a poll we recently published, one respondent asked how using a design firm can help save money in the long run.  Good question, thanks for asking.</p>
<p>It does seem to be an oxymoron to say that one can save money by spending it.  Old adages about saving &amp; earning pennies, getting what you pay for, etc., often lead one to sidestep what could be the most important part of any project: <em><strong>planning</strong></em>.  In order to save money on your next remodeling project, I believe we must discuss <em><strong>Proper Planning, Effective Presentation, and Critical Collaboration.<span id="more-619"></span></strong></em></p>
<h3>Proper planning</h3>
<p>First, using the proper techniques of research and planning will fulfill a homeowner&#8217;s needs much better than what is often portrayed in popular TV home improvement shows.  Those shows only have 30-60 minutes of airtime, and interviewing a homeowner isn&#8217;t the glitzy, glamorous TV stuff that producers want to air.  Also, designers need to <span style="text-decoration: underline;">listen </span>to their clients more.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than to hear a designer going on and on about what he or she sees in this project.  Let&#8217;s get this straight, the homeowner is living there, <strong>not</strong> the designer!  Ok, I digress, back to planning.</p>
<p>When a designer asks questions such as, &#8220;How many people do you entertain at one time?&#8221; or &#8220;What would you feel about something different, say moving the laundry somewhere else in the home?&#8221; he is looking for your taste and thoughts of how to provide an equitable solution to your needs.  There have been many occasions where a homeowner has one idea of how to provide a solution, where there may be another, even less expensive way to solve the problem.</p>
<p>The example that comes to mind is when I was first starting this business.  A local doctor was needing some more space, along with other needs to accomodate the handicapped.  Their thought was that they needed another 20 feet added onto the office.  After studying the floor plan, and the typical traffic patterns of the staff, I found that an 8 foot addition would provide the space they needed.  Planning saved them about 300 square feet of addition materials and taxes.  There are many other similar stories where we found the ability to make the project work using creative methods to not cause the typical &#8220;scope creep&#8221; or &#8220;Remodeler&#8217;s 15&#8243; which both create a greater cost.</p>
<h3>Effective Presentation</h3>
<p>I find it amazing with the technology capabilities and availability we have, some are still working with tools from decades ago.  Many of our clients appreciate the ability to see their project in 3D <strong>before</strong> they settle on the design.  The accuracy and quality we maintain to build that model also helps the contractor make educated decisions about building the project.</p>
<p>Effective presentation also means that we are not stuck on the design we present.  This means that we don&#8217;t argue with the homeowner if they want it changed.  The good news is, many changes are easy.  Granted, it is rewarding when the client says that they love the design.</p>
<h3>Critical Collaboration</h3>
<p>The last key to saving money by design is the collaboration piece.  I say it is critical because ultimately, every project owner wants to control what the project looks like, and how much it will cost.  Consider the roles: the designer works on the looks, and the contractor works on the cost.  <em>There must be collaboration &#8211; which requires communication.</em><strong> </strong></p>
<p>If a homeowner does not include both contractor and designer from the beginning, control of both looks and cost will be lost.  A professional design/build team actually ensures control in such a manner that homeowners cannot get elsewhere.  If this collaboration and communication drops, then money is being spent to spin wheels.</p>
<p>Also critical is that <a title="The Value of a TEAM" href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/the-value-of-a-team" target="_blank">collaboration provides a team effort</a> on your project.  I recently heard of one woman who opted to hire another company to draft her project.  She chose not to have our team design it.  Some ceiling leaks, 18-24 months and several thousand dollars after the project was completed, her dormers had to be moved.  Yes, she would have paid us more than the other company, but had much less stress of another minor remodeling project down the road, and most likely, less output in the long run.</p>
<div class="ngg-related-gallery"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for Saving money by design" ><img title="whole house remodel 1st floor" alt="whole house remodel 1st floor" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-over-v3.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for Saving money by design" ><img title="whole house remodel exterior" alt="whole house remodel exterior" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-over-v3.jpg" /></a>
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		<title>BIM for my home?</title>
		<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/bim-for-my-home</link>
		<comments>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/bim-for-my-home#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Schrock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Business]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design/Build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fun]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[BIM]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design/build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[remodel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[remodeling]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/?p=512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BIM - is it just fancy lingo to make clients go gaga? Does BIM make sense for a residential project?  Does BIM make my project better?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know about you, but I&#8217;ve been reading a <strong><em>LOT</em></strong> about Building Information Modeling (BIM) lately.  Even Warren Buffet is talking about BIM!  It used to be that BIM was used strictly for larger corporations who were building medium to large manufacturing plants or offices. But now, people are talking about BIM for homes &#8211; yours and mine!  Does that seem odd to you?  Corporations are using this technology to save them money on their large projects.  If this technology could be used for <strong><em>your</em></strong> betterment, would that be relevant?<span id="more-512"></span></p>
<div class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 210px"><a class="shutterset_" href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/optionb-night-v1.jpg"><img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-none " title="Exterior remodel - night view" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_optionb-night-v1.jpg" alt="Exterior remodel at night" width="200" height="150" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Exterior remodel - night view</p></div>
<p>First, let&#8217;s define Building Information Modeling.  <a title="BimWiki: What is BIM" href="http://bimwiki.com/About_BIM/Definition_of_BIM" target="_blank">BimWiki</a> states that, &#8220;BIM is the virtual representation of the physical and functional characteristics of a facility from inception onward. As such, it serves as a shared information repository for collaboration throughout a facility&#8217;s lifecycle.&#8221; &#8211; <a rel="internal" href="http://bimwiki.com/User:suermann">Patrick Suermann</a>, PE. NBIMS Testing Team Leader.</p>
<p>Note the comment that BimWiki user, beartoe, submitted regarding BIM.  He states, &#8220;I think any discussion of BIM (&#8220;little bim&#8221;, the desktop technology) is incomplete without a corresponding discussion of IPD (integrated Project Delivery, aka &#8220;BIG BIM&#8221;.) It is reasonable to argue that &#8220;little bim&#8221; is really just better CAD, while <em><strong>IPD</strong></em> is the change in the construction industry that <em><strong>will deliver the greater benefits</strong></em>. Because <em><strong>IPD requires a high degree of collaboration, communication, and pro-active project planning</strong></em> in a non-litigative legal setting, it may be that <em><strong>IPD is what really delivers the goods</strong></em>, even more than the desktop technology.&#8221; (emphasis mine)</p>
<p>Aha!  The secret is out.  But was it really a secret?  Fancy talk can muddle the mind.  BIM is just a tool &#8211; just like EKG, .com, and screw-drivers are tools.</p>
<div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 210px"><a class="shutterset_" title="3D framing gives clear communication" href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/roof-frm-v11.jpg"><img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-right " title="BIM Roof framing" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_roof-frm-v11.jpg" alt="BIM roof framing" width="200" height="150" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">BIM Roof framing</p></div>
<p>Certainly, EKGs are technological wonders that can help us see what is inside our body, and BIM can do the same for our dwellings, but the real secret is the <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">team</span></em> behind the technology.  Previous articles here have mentioned <a title="The Value of a TEAM" href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/the-value-of-a-team/trackback" target="_blank">TEAM playing</a>, the troubles <a title="Top Ten Mistakes..." href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/top-ten-mistakes/trackback" target="_blank">homeowners run into when hiring a contractor</a>, and others, for the purpose of helping homeowners find that system that &#8220;<strong>really delivers the goods</strong>.&#8221;  These articles are also geared toward contractors who are looking to &#8220;<strong>deliver the goods</strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p>This article is <strong>not</strong> saying that BIM should not be used for residential projects.  In fact, BIM is well worth the investment for <span style="text-decoration: underline;">any</span> project, no matter the size.  However, some doctors can operate and read EKGs; others are exceptional.</p>
<p>Integrated Project Delivery &#8211; delivering the better project.</p>
<p>I call it Design/Build.</p>
<div class="ngg-related-gallery"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-over-v3.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for BIM for <em>my</em> home?" ><img title="whole house remodel exterior" alt="whole house remodel exterior" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-over-v3.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for BIM for <em>my</em> home?" ><img title="whole house remodel 1st floor" alt="whole house remodel 1st floor" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" /></a>
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		<title>The value of a TEAM</title>
		<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/the-value-of-a-team</link>
		<comments>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/the-value-of-a-team#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Schrock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Business]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design/Build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design/build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[home improvement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[remodel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[TEAM]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/?p=510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#8217;ve all heard the acronym for the word TEAM, right?  Together Everyone Achieves More.   How true that is, but only if the team is on the same page!  This truism affects both sides - provider and consumer. Consider your business or a business you know.  If that business is a one-person-gig, does it do well?  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve all heard the acronym for the word <strong>TEAM</strong>, right?  <strong>T</strong>ogether <strong>E</strong>veryone <strong>A</strong>chieves <strong>M</strong>ore.   How true that is, but <strong>only</strong> if the team is on the <strong>same page</strong>!  This truism affects both sides <span id="more-510"></span>- provider and consumer.</p>
<p>Consider your business or a business you know.  If that business is a one-person-gig, does it do well?  Does it operate smoothly, or have a roller-coaster ride in profits, quality, service, communication, marketing, production/delivery, sales, etc.?  Could that business do better?  Consider that even a one-person-show can still have team-members.  That team could consist of sub-contractors, a business coach, clients, trade professionals, and more.</p>
<p>This business has seen this time after time.  By offering an inside view of our reality thru online design sessions, information has been collected.  This gives the opportunity to introduce others to business partners, and vice-versa.  Since this team has been created and running smoothly for six-plus years now, it runs smoothly and on the same page.</p>
<p>The value that this team gives to a client is the strength of knowledge, talent, accountability, and delivery.</p>
<p>No one person has the ability and talent to do <strong>everything</strong> for a client, let alone all clients!  So the team brings greater value thru greater ability and talent, but the greatest value that I believe a team has for its clients is accountability.  If a team is not accountable to each other and self-correcting, the whole team will be going down, the client won&#8217;t be happy, and the whole process will be at the bottom of that roller-coaster ride.  Then we all know how fast bad news travels!</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t mis-understand: accountability isn&#8217;t always fun.  Correction never really feels good, but it is a great feeling to know in the end that you have given the client the value they deserve from your service.</p>
<p>The <strong>TEAM</strong> has succeeded!</p>
<p>This is why we support the Design/Build process &#8211; it is a <strong>TEAM</strong> approach.  Best of all, we include the client as a <strong>TEAM</strong> member!  Subtle, but different.</p>
<div class="ngg-related-gallery"><a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-over-v3.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for The value of a TEAM" ><img title="whole house remodel exterior" alt="whole house remodel exterior" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-over-v3.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_Related images for The value of a TEAM" ><img title="whole house remodel 1st floor" alt="whole house remodel 1st floor" src="http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/wp-content/gallery/portfolio/thumbs/thumbs_1133-new-1stflr-doll-v1.jpg" /></a>
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		<title>A different perspective</title>
		<link>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/different-perspective</link>
		<comments>http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/different-perspective#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Schrock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design/Build]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sales]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design/build]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.designbuildsolutionsllc.com/articles/?p=355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you ever felt like this? I hate to say it, but I&#8217;ve probably done this! Such a perspective certainly gives a different view of professional services&#8230;and their worth. While watching this video, think of the message&#8230;and do you agree, or not? So&#8230;What message did you hear, and do you agree? Dis-agree?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever felt like this?  I hate to say it, but I&#8217;ve probably done this!  Such a perspective certainly gives a different view of professional services&#8230;and their worth.  </p>
<p>While watching this video, think of the message&#8230;and do you agree, or not?<br />
<span id="more-355"></span><br />
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<p>So&#8230;What message did you hear, and do you agree?  Dis-agree?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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